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Thursday, 12 June 2008

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Alan down in Florida

"if that's what's going to make them truly happy"

The bottom line is that it does NOT make them truly happy. Living a lie is the most difficult and unhappy thing you can do.

Nigel

Fuck, are you serious? So, no matter how many closets I exit I will find discrimination? Dam, why did those sexy military types recruit me into this sinful lifestyle...mmm military men, what was I talking about?

Also, I laughed out loud at the thought of evil trannies stalking grandmas. It could be like the crocidile hunter, only gayer...and well just as dangerous b/c southern baptist grannies can kill with their disapproval.

Nigel

Denny, the difference between me and a homophobe is that homosexuality isn't a choice. A person who preaches for ex-"gay" way, is essentially preying on those who aren't fully mentally stable. They usually depressed, having it been drilled (heh, drilled) into them that what they are feeling is unnatural and should be condemened. They can't reconcile that with how natural it feels, so they go to these programs that baisically train them to repress these feelings and without booster meetings are back to sucking cock in a few days.

Nigel

I'm sorry, I'm all for individual rights, but I don't think you can make a reasoned decision whilst suffering from deep psychological damage, which is what this allows them to do. It's like if I started a cult and preyed on the depressed, should we stop those people from coming to my cult?

Nigel

Ah, and therein lies the crux of the matter. As long as no harm is done, are you saying that baisically using and abusing someone's deep depression and self-loathing (this goes FAR beyond, I feel blah today, this goes into levels of major clincal depression, though luckily with a fairly simple treatment of finding the root cause) in order for them to live a life that essentially not who they are? So, is it harmful for them to be allowed to sign up to a program where instead of fixing the Id Super Ego conflict, they just say to the Ego, in essence, to turn love to hate. There is a reason that many ex-"gays" are homophobic, because they have turned that deep desire into hatred, but it's not a fool proof system.

So, if you describe harm in the purely physical sense, then sure this is something harmless, for the most part. But, if you include the mental aspect, this can be deeply scarring, because instead of helping a person cope, they just force the person into deeper repression.

Nigel

Also, in regards to them being depressed and the like, for the therapy to work it's baisically an extreme form of operative conditioning with emotional stimulus being the main component from stopping the response from being unconditioned. Now then, the emotional response is "These feelings aren't natural" and that they should like the opposite sex, but no matter what they do, they can't and so they begin to feel like it's something wrong with them, exactly where do you think this will go? It will spiral them into a major bout of self-loathing and depression far more then the one every one gets now and then which is just the blahs. Trust me, I have had to deal with Clinical Depression, it's soul crushing you just want to curl into a corner cry and shoot yourself bad and lasts an indeterminable amount of time.

Nigel

This is the last I will say, because you have your set opinion and I have mine. But this is a bit different then just acting out by smoking ciggaretes and the like. This goes into levels of baisically people using and manipulating people who are not in the right frame of mind. Add to that a lot of these sessions are not with trained psychologists you get a recipe for disaster. And while I'm all for personal liberties, this is one thing I don't think is right, because your taking advantage of someone who really isn't thinking quite right.

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